On comments: Even though I have stressed repeatedly that my posts are not about tipping, that’s the general thread in comments received. If Sam’s lady sweater hadn’t opted to try to remind the two of them to tip, I would have simply left it as, This was a working deadspread for me. If the majority of you don’t know what a working deadspread was before that post, you must know it now.
I did NOT write anything mean or negative about either player. I simply stated the interaction with me while I was dealing the game. There was a lot of other conversation, some of it was pretty funny, and after Sam left the room when Aaron Katz came in to talk to Brian – I did not write any of that, and will not, because it didn’t pertain to me. That type of thing I do feel is private and should not be aired by me.
Dealing a poker game is not private, playing a poker game is not private. In case most of you hadn’t noticed, everyone has a cell phone that takes pictures – and they do – and lots of big games are spread around poker rooms and they are not enclosed in a room like Bobby’s Room. And people playing these games have sweaters. There is more information out in the world on the subject of who was playing where and what was said and who lost what then I could ever provide or cover.
I did not imply that either one of them are anything but people playing poker.
I have never talked to a dealer that liked Sam Farha. I do. I find him to be quite entertaining and we get along. The fact that he’s a ‘poker personality’ doesn’t disturb me, he’s part of what makes the game what it is.
I think Brian’s whole exposure to the big limit game is a testament of his playing skill and abilities. My writing here should only bring him more positive feedback and send people to his blog and site.
The post was for me, because I record for my own sake and for the sake of my kids and grandkids so they can look back and share a part of my life. The fact that I record here should make most of you happy. You all want to know what is going on in the poker world and what happens in high limit games, yet you want to jump down my throat when I write and accuse me of being a whiner about tipping and then go so far as to scream that I should be/’will be fired’ and that I am being unkind and mean and that I did not do my job properly or I would have gotten tipped. If I’m being mean or unkind, what are you being? I approved all comments except one. Some of them made me laugh at their absurdity and those that posted them should really get out into the world and see what’s going on before they start penning.
Stop and think about ‘Dodging a Bullet’. Why do you honestly think that dealers don’t want to deal high limit? Do you think it’s because of tipping? You are completely wrong. It’s because of player attitude. It’s because of pressure and tension that rolls off of everyone at the table. It’s because one or two players always try to put the dealer on their level, which is irritation and frustration, and they snap and bark at the dealer even when the dealer hasn’t done anything wrong. And yes, there is no money for the dealer even if they deal the game flawlessly, year after year, to the same people. If the dealer doesn’t make any mistakes, the players don’t even know they are there – that is the way a game should be ran by the dealer – but unfortunately in high limit it rarely goes that way.
An example would be a post last week where Aaron Katz told me ‘good dealer’ as I was preparing to take time and get ready to deal the first hand of my down. He had lost the previous hand. He didn’t even know the dealer had changed. Another example would be last week when I was dealing $150-300 mixed, the 1 and 2s were walking, the button was in the 7s (eight handed game), the 8s posted the small blind, I had cut the deck and had it in my hand, ready to deal. I picked up two Missed Blind buttons from the rack and turned my body to the left to throw the buttons by the walker’s stacks. Instantly I got, “THE DEAL STARTS HERE!”
I looked at the 7s and he was instructing me where the first card was to be dealt. I said, “I know,” as I opened my hand to show him two Missed Blind buttons. I know dealers make mistakes. I make them. I also know players make mistakes, not just in their play, but in how they approach their table image and their interaction with other people. I don’t snap and bark at them unless they are completely out of line. It should even out somewhere.
And again, the post was not about tipping, but for those of you that will always read everything I write in that vein, I won’t try to sway you any further, believe what you want.
On Tipping:
Since everyone wants to get into tipping, let’s do that. Dealers do have a certain toke expectation for each shift, not just poker dealers but pit dealers as well. The only reason to work a dealer job is because of tokes. If we relied on our hourly wage, we might as well go to Walmart and get a job. To say that a dealer expects any one person to tip would not be correct. There are a few people that I deal to that I know will never tip me. I’m OK with that.
To think that high limit players shouldn’t have to tip or shouldn’t be aware it’s part of the industry is completely bogus. Yet the higher up the ladder a player goes, the less they tip. There is something wrong with that picture, whether any of you admit it or not, there’s something wrong with the whole picture.
I don’t believe any dealer ever thinks or feels they should get a $500 toke, or a $100 toke, or even a $25 toke when they push a pot of $200K or so. We quit believing in the Toke Fairy years ago. It’s a very negative feeling to come out a high limit game – after dealing it again and again and again over the years – and never leave with anything in your pocket. Here’s where some of you can jump on the band wagon and scream that the dealer must not be doing their job and must be making a lot of mistakes – you are completely wrong of course, but go for it.
At one point some years ago, when Time was taken from a pot, the winning player of that Time Pot gave the incoming dealer a $25 toke for the down. Everyone in the game agreed to it and I believe most of the dealers were quite happy with that. It didn’t last very long. Some of the players that won the pot had a fit and didn’t want to pay the dealer toke – yet it should all even out over time. Since toking is a personal option, it fell by the wayside.
So…let’s go to a night of high limit. During tournament time in most poker rooms (not just in Vegas), high limit action goes crazy. Everyone that is a pro or regular grinder, always plays higher because the action is extreme. Most rooms fill up with high limit games and they are given priority over smaller limit games. If a dealer draws in a line-up that is high limit, vs. dealing mixed limits and lower limit games, the dealer can expect to make about 2/3 of their normal toke income and put up with more noise and stress from players. So why would we want to be there? There is no honor award at the end of the year for making less money and dealing the same hours with more noise and stress.
In most cases, a $20 tip is huge to a dealer. In extremely high limit, I don’t believe a dealer even begins to think they should receive a toke on each hand they deal…if you find a dealer that believes that, please find out what kind of drugs they are on because I definitely want some. There are a few times the dealer might make $500 or even more out of a down in very high limit, it has never happened to me and since I’ve been dealing a lot of years and know most of the dealing crew, it’s happened to very few of us. It would be nice, when leaving the down, if two or three players threw the dealer a $5 toke even…that’s more than is made most of the time.
I don’t believe my attitude ever changes when I’m dealing, depending on whether or not I am toked. Believe me, I’ve been stiffed by experts. But I’ve seen a lot of dealers (when I’m in the player’s seat) that get huffy and irritated if they aren’t being tipped. I think that’s just fuel for the players that like to make the dealer miserable, where they might tip another dealer, they won’t tip this one because they think it’s funny to watch the dealer flip out.
I’ve dealt to people that I’ve done nothing to, just dealt the game, and they are having fits and threatening me with ‘never tipping you’. The first time they say it, I always reply, “Do what you think is best.” I’ve had other players make it a point to tip me when the threatening player wins a pot – and even point out, “Here, that’s from ??” It makes the threatening player go ballistic which is mainly why the tipping player does it…STEAM baby. And the tipping player does it because they have sympathy for the dealer in the box.
I’ve had players tip when I left the game, and I never pushed them a pot, just because they liked the way I ran the game.
Wrapping up: I could write a book on people behavior just from sitting on both sides of the green felt…and I think I have an incredible understanding of the layers of personalities and the ‘whys’ and ‘why nots’ after being in the box all these years. So…if you think my posts are about tipping, and about being mean, and about making players look bad (keep in mind that I don’t have to do that, they do it themselves), and you want to ship me a comment, all I have to say about that is, “Do what you think is best.”
Linda:
Ignore the idiots. As you know, the world is full of them. I, as I’m sure most decent human beings, find "highrollers" or anyone who never tips dispicable. It really shows their true colors. These are generally miserable people who go through life thinking the world owes them something. Let them be miserable. Just keep being yourself. Good people, like yourself, make this world a better place for all of us.
Jonathan
tell everyone to kiss your ass. and ask them how would they feel if they went to work and the ceo of there company didn’t pay them for that day. i’ve played poker for 17yrs. and this is the one thing that burns me up at a poker table . when one of these "internet poker players" who thinks he is the next phil hellmuth looks down on dealers. so from me and 80% of the people who play poker and know there limits. and knows what it takes to make in the real world. THANK YOU.
Anyone who actually thought that post was about tipping needs to work on their reading comprehension. That also goes for anyone who thought that you were complaining in the same post. Don’t let these Trolls get you down and keep these great posts coming.
Hey,
Hope things are going well for you.
You know i like you. We get along well…… and i enjoy our conversations.
But this topic is one that i think youre terribly inconsistent with.
You state "The only reason to work a dealer job is because of tokes. If we relied on our hourly wage, we might as well go to Walmart and get a job."
Yet, over and over again in your entries, you make it a point to explain how you have a very strict and defined set of HOUSE rules that you must follow to keep your job. I respect your right to handle your job that way. I would never specifically instruct a dealer to break the rules of the house and put their livelihood in jeopardy. However, you’re maintaining here what i would maintain until im blue in the face…….
You dont work for the house, per se. Your wage is largely determined by and reliant upon the players.
As a high limit player, i have a certain expectation of any dealer to use their good sense and years of experience to determine how to handle issues as they arise at the table without falling back upon the strict standard of the house to remove from them any expectation of judgment.
If, and when, any dealer puts me in a position where they’re hurting or compromising my livelihood by not offering me the courtesy of their discretion…. i will respect that as their choice.
But in return, wouldnt you respect the fact that tipping for me is not a duty. Its a reciprocation for service. Not service to the house…… or some of its bizarre rules, but service to me as a customer.
To turn this conversation a bit more specific……….. i can think of one specific issue that might illustrate what im talking about.
I come in every day and start a short handed game. We typically play heads up……. or three handed (sometimes four if we’re lucky).
We play every day. We play when there are lots of games in the room and we play when there are no games in the room. We play during tournament time and we play when there are no tournaments.
The game is (besides the big game) the biggest regular limit game that is spread in town by over 3x.
And in the meantime….. we are forced to sit and wait every day for the shuffle machine in between hands.
I couldnt estimate how punitive this policy is for us.
It hurts my livelihood. Its a slap in the face to customers who generate business for the house…….. and to get back to the main point……. the dealers who look to accomodate us and hand shuffle (despite the house rule) make an extra ‘wage’ from me. Those who dont…..
I dont pressure them. I respect their decision. But i certainly dont go out of my way to tip them.
Now, that all being said……. youve dealt to me on many occassions…. and i think youd say that im relatively generous.
I think, at times, that im generous to a fault. I try to treat people well and try to take care of those that take care of me.
To the best of my judgment….. taking care of me…. means looking to accomodate me in the best way possible….. even if its against house rules at times.
I guess my point is……. I dont think you can have it both ways…..
I dont think you can expect tips as the main source of your income while not providing service to these individuals.
That being said, if you consider providing service…… being the best dealer you can be mechanically and enforcing the house rules efficiently and rigidly. I cant argue with that.
Some would say…….. that type of dealer is simply doing their job and is bound by the house rules and if you dont like those rules, specifically, then you should find another house to play in.
I wouldnt argue with that either.
Sorry for the ramble.
I should also note…… i think that tipping in poker has been bastardized for some reason.
Tipping should be for good service and should be proportional to the level of service received.
I could lose 100 bets in your half-hour and ill still tip.
I could win 100 bets and i might wait to tip til the end. And ill typically tip more because i like to share my good fortune……. but why tipping a poker dealer has become a response to winning or losing is beyond me.
Why penalize a good dealer for your loss when theyre not doing anything to influence your results?
Why reward a bad dealer for your wins when theyre not doing anything to influence your results?
I dont get it. We might as well go back to putting all the tokes in a box and chopping them equally.
Keep up the good work and don’t let the naysayers get you down. I earned my nickname "Dr. Chako" when I was bussing tables. Now that I actually am a doctor, I can afford to tip well at restaurants and I always do. It must also be why dealers always toke high (too high?) when they are playing.
I can see why you get excited to deal the lower limits. It’s almost like a financial disinsentive to be a good dealer – you get the ultra-high limits and nothing to show for it.
Does the management acknowledge the poor tipping and compensate you some other way?
-DrC
Steam a stiff….!!!!!
I often make it a habit to tip a dealer, when a "jerk with an attitude" stiffs the dealer. Sometimes, I head motion to the stiff and say "he must have forgotten to tip. I’ll cover it for him." I assume it is an investment "in edge" over a player, who is is more invested in poor attitude or angerthen focused play. Often it can "tilt" them just a little more into worse play. I expect the dealer to assist in those cases by taking the "moral high ground" and giving undeserved respect to the offending player, but sometimes clever sarcasm is appropriate.
I gave a proxy tip after one dealer was stiffed, and told he might never tip her again… she promptly responded "thank you sir, you make the game what it is today!"…
When I was a teacher I found it was usually best to let the class take care of the loudmouth, jerk, that was taking away from their experience. They were usually quite good about putting him in his place.
Please talk about tipping some more Linda. It might be a good way to weed out your readers that try to take away your freedom and candor in writing.
As for me and many others we read your blog because it we enjoy it and we get to experience the "felt" from the dealer’s box perspective. Most of us want to hear it, the good, the bad and the ugly…….
Give us a chance, we will have ways to "get him" at the tables…. keep giving us the opportunity to….. grin…..
Linda, I don’t know how you do it. I deal in a small room in Laughlin. Only games are 3-6 with a full kill and 2-5 no limit. I only work grave yard shift 2 nites a week, and I average over $25.00 per hr. I became a Dealer after reading table tango on your site. Keep up the good work.
Well, initially, I did not like the blog entry and the post that started all this commotion, but having read more, I think I understand your reason more. I thought you crossed the line, naming names and saying you got stiffed. I still don’t really agree with it, but I understand it.
For the whole debate as to whether or not to tip, I have discussed this with a lot of poker players and a lot of dealers even. I was a waiter and bartender all through college and feel I am definitely a heavy tipper and often tip $50-100 or more in a night of playing $1/2 NL. When I rake in a big pot, I certainly don’t mind throwing in $10-$25, as I guess I feel like it’s my opportunity to give back a little. Plus, I justify it in my mind, that it was the jerk in seats 5’s money I’m tipping with (example). The guy who has been abusing the dealer all night. So, I get a laugh from tipping with his money 🙂
The casinos I play in, the tips all go to a pool and I realize the bad dealers get tipped equally as well as the good dealers. I am ok with this and truly believe the more people who share in my beliefs and tipping, the better the dealers our casino will draw. I also have a knowlege of what a good tip does for a person’s attitude and figure I can turn that person’s night around or at least give them a smile, just by tipping a little more than a normal person might. I am ok with others who do not share or understand this part of the business. What I have a problem with, is putting up with the arrogance, needling and other junk that goes on, and then getting no tip in return. If it is the same for a dealer as a waiter, you end up paying for the right to "serve" this person. You get taxed enough, that not only did you lose out by not getting to deal a game where you are compensated fairly, but you actually pay money to uncle sam for this. I can’t tell those who have not experienced this enough, how bad this sucks.
Yes, the same argument can be made for waiters, bartenders or even the valet, if you don’t like it, you can get another job that doesn’t involve tipping, but that is just a short sighted opinion from someone who truly does not understand the business.
Finally, I have the same question to those who read this blog as I had for those who read BT’s……..why is it ok for the high rollers to tip cocktail waitresses huge and stiff the dealer? Because the cocktail waitress brought them a drink or because she is wearing a short skirt? Did she provide any more service to the person than the dealer? If you had a choice between having a good dealer or a good cocktail waitress, which would you choose? I also believe the stakes and limits should consitute higher tipping than the lower stakes, but I realize this is not reality. Works in restraunts usually, but not in poker/blackjack? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Good luck dealing and thanks for sharing a little bit from a dealer’s perspective.
How about some advice on what to tip, for those of us planning to go to a casino for the first time.
Thanks.
Online dealers rock. They are quick, consistent and never complain. Plus you won’t get outted in a public forum.